Curse

Jestah · Jul 16, 2006, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by prodigy ming

maybe I just have bad experiences... but whenever a elementalist tries to tank, 9 times of of 10, he dies fast. really fast.

How about you just DON'T have a tank at all, it rarely works, it's overkill when it does and it's BORING.

Not that I PvE much any more but anyone shouting "stance tank lfg" can stay the hell away from my party.

BTW: Warriors get so little attention in PvE since the AI update (thank you Anet for nerfing noobs) that I've even tried running frenzy there and it was actually pretty effective.

wilebill · Jul 16, 2006, 10:25 AM // 10:25

I guess if your tactics attrib exceeds your weapon attrib, and you have more defense skills on your bar than attack skills, you are a tank. Tanking has never worked for me, though.

In PvE, solo with henchies, config like you want, but carry a no-attrib longbow, something like 8-11 damage. Start combat with that, get the henchies to aggro. The henchies are most effective when you are at range and the healer is not having to fling healing spells at you. Same thing works solo henching with an assassin.

LifeInfusion · Jul 16, 2006, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowfox1125

Whenever I play my warrior, I say "Warrior LFG," never, "TANK LFG."

I never say Tank LFG either.

Tank is what W/Mo's with <12 weapon attribute and 16 tactics do. I'll stick to my 12 attributes in my weapon thank you.

BTW, Watch Yourself is probably way more useful than bonetti's /dolyak sig considering that the whole party is buffed, which means there is less incentive for mobs not to bash on you, the warrior. It is evident when the Jade Brotherhood use it, that's for sure.

With Factions, the mobs do not hold aggro well. If they see you doing a load of damage on them (or have low armor), however, they will attack you. So therefore we can assume that warrior's should do damage.

Stormlord Alex · Jul 16, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Heh, I don't play tank either... in PvE, I find I can do some sweet damage as a Warrior even against high-levelled mobs (In FoW, I can easily do 100+ damage to a shadow with a hammer and Power Attack).

I simply take Watch Yourself! (for the party) and Dolyak Signet (if they decide to attack me...), sometimes Shield's Up!, with Healing Signet. I find can stay alive a helluva lot longer than all these W/Mo 'tanks', even without a shield and mending.

Raxxman · Jul 16, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Watch yourself is so good I fear it'll get nerfed

Aisius · Jul 17, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

The only reason I stay W/Mo is for the fixed rez.

If I can take on the enemy with no one else in my group inside my aggro bubble tanking works perfectly in pve. Experience's of this are the festival (just been) special mission and even Gayla's Hatchery (alternative route).

For the most part the typical PuG pve team won't stay out of my aggro circle on the onset of aggroing mobs so tanking never works in this case. A little bit of Death penalty can help however.

Watch yourself is an ok skill but still from a damage point of view thats 4 adren not damaging the mob and dolyak can increase your armour to +40, typically running around at +32-38. I only take Dolyak now if I'm soloing or I know the group will give me a head start on mobs.

Alot of the best practices of a tank/warrior/barbarian imo are target selection. Kill that ritualist then monk then ele or take out the ele then ritualist monk. All depends on the situation and judging what the group can withstand. This is what makes or breaks this profession played well imo.

chumsy · Jul 17, 2006, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Anyone try Urgoz's Warren?

Wars have to be tanks there - but with "shields up", distracting blow, ViM, and maybe some kind of AoE like belly smash, they'd still have plenty to do than just stand there.

p.s. about the collector shield, I've gone and swapped one of it, so thanks to those that helped.
@ Shuuda - that insult was totally uncalled for.

Witte Was · Jul 17, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambda the great

Barbarian=Able to hold aggro, stay alive and do very nice dmg.

And thats what a true warrior should do

Winstar · Jul 17, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

If by tanking in Urgoz's Warren you mean loading up with defensive skills so that you basically just stand there and take damage, well, no thats not needed. You can tank effectively with a minimal selection of defensive skills while still producing a high damage output. Tanking does require defensive overkill.

Age · Jul 17, 2006, 11:03 PM // 23:03

I don't play a tank when i play Warrior only that Warrior and I don't use endure pain or defy as I once did and I hate it when it wears out i use watchyourself as well when pressing my healing sig. I only use the doylak when solo farming.I have both sword and axe.I do have a W/Mo as well and my 2nd being a W/R not Iway.

chumsy · Jul 18, 2006, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Somehow I feel like I'm the only one who's ever considered standing back and using "shields up" to benefit the casters with blocking vs savage shot and +50 def vs arrows and dagger attacks when meleeing would only draw aggro from more than 1 group.

Valkyries · Jul 18, 2006, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Honestly Im really quite surprised by the comments.

First off, tanking IS needed but only in certain places. Do you need a Warrior Tank in Sanctum Cay? Of course not. But go to FoW or UW or any high end place/elite missions and a tank is really going to make life a ton easier. Maybe it isn't required but it is a HUGE benefit.

Now that being said, explain to me again why a tank cannot deal damage? Also if you are having problems with enemies running all over the place, maybe you should learn how to keep agro. Thats basically what a tank is all about.

I don't load up on defensive skills but I admit I do carry at least half my bar with them. There is no reason not to use offensive skills as well. Its called a complete warrior.

I run an Axe usually and put in a few things like Triple Chop, Cyclone Axe and Exec strike... then use things like Shields up, Dylroks Signet, a good stance and a res... I have no problems tanking at all, I can keep the agro away from the other members of the party and I can still dish out a pile of damage. Its all about balance IMO.

I totally understand why people want tanks on their team but the minute I get someone saying "you MUST take X skill" Ill just leave. I have no problems in tanking but Im going to dish out a ton of damage as well. Its good to be a meat shield especially if you have a sensible Monk who can do anything.

In PVP its obviously very different so Im not really going to get into that.... but I really think it has its uses, just maybe not the way everyone thinks about it.

Just my 2 cents.

Fox Reeveheart · Jul 20, 2006, 04:56 AM // 04:56

bah o.o some of us just want to be pure damage dealers, this is why monks were made >.>

infact... I need to make a "warriors don't need tactics" thread :\ I love just having a weapon and strength

LordLucifer · Jul 20, 2006, 10:26 AM // 10:26

pure tanks are a waste4 in a team, there isnt a "taunt" skill for any1 to play like that, warriors arent tanks, warriors are warriors, they go in battle before the others to take the alpha hit, and then start doing their thingie..

Quote:

Originally Posted by yamero

warriors are damage dealers in pvp only ppl...

in pve even an elemental monstaer has 100-120 armor plus they are 4-8 lvls above us

try reading the inherent bonus on the attribute strenght, armor isnt a big problem for warriors as it is to nuker for example (any1 tried using dolyak+earth armor and dance under a met shower?)

if any1 is looking for a tank go play city of heroes, they do have a class called that and then you will see what i tanker really is (a puchbag doh)

PS: before i get any flamming... "warriors are warriors, they go in battle before the others to take the alpha hit"

Edit: oh yah almost forgot, about dmg, axe spikes can deal more dmg than MANY assasin combos.... but we have to wait for adren to charge..thats why we have our high armor, or would you want to build up adren with assasins armor? lol

jummeth · Jul 20, 2006, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Kill stuff, dead things don't do damage. Finished.

shalako · Jul 20, 2006, 02:10 PM // 14:10

[QUOTE=Valkyries]Honestly Im really quite surprised by the comments.
I don't load up on defensive skills but I admit I do carry at least half my bar with them.

Lol......sorry that is loading up..If half of your skills are defensive and a res..you don't have any ability to build adrenaline and do real damage....

Unless you are sup runed...then you are defeating the purpose of having a warrior... which is enough hp + armor to OUTLAST your opponent....

the bottom line is killing your foe before he is able to kill you and your party...

Tanking has it's place...That's in a few select places....FOW is a good example but for the most part I want my warrior to put a pounding on em before they can kill my monk......

Aisius · Jul 20, 2006, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Some defensive damage skills come to mind-
Gladiators defense
Reposte
Deadly Reposte

Just realized I was repeating what another thread contributer said :

Quote:

Originally Posted by narud

tanking and damage dealing can easily go together when vs other melee. Riposte, deadly riposte, gladiators defense, nice spam of final thrust, with bonnettis defense for energy. Or just look at my variant of fow spider killin, super spam of cleave even with flurry up and occasional executioners strike drops them really fast. And with watch yourself and dolyak signet you almost take no damage. Bring a dmg reduction sheild and have axe set for damage dealing and you do tanking and dmg easy.

But of course we dont have to ONLY tank. Do both and youre a REAL tank, cannon and all.

heh

shalako · Jul 20, 2006, 04:43 PM // 16:43

riposte and deadly riposte are fine if you want to run a sword warrior...

but if you are running hammer or axe they are not valid...and i wouldn't want to waste my elite on glads defense using an axe when i could use triple chop, eviscerate, or cleave for that matter..

but still you have a point for the sword warrior riposte and deadly are often used and all in all good skills...

Phoenix Sebolta · Jul 21, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox Reeveheart

I need to make a "warriors don't need tactics" thread :\ I love just having a weapon and strength

MY FEELINGS EXACTLY. I play PvE a lot, and what good is a tank when youre on your own?!?! You have to be able to deal a lot of damage, and tactics wont deal damage (unless its with riposte, which is only effective against warrior enemies). I cary 16 swordsmanship, 12 Strength and 8 healing prayers. hundred Blades gives me adrenaline which gives me the sword skills to attack, dolyak sig with high strength keeps me from dying and healing prayers heal. I use vigorous spirit and breeze. Healing signet is inneffective unless you have 16 tactics. I do have when im farming Trolls, because tactics does everything, but with 8 tactics you get 100 hp. Most of that will be lost while casting because of the -40 armor. To be a solo damage dealing warrior, 16 weapon/12 strength is the way to go i feel.

Rera · Jul 21, 2006, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Tanking doesn't happen in PUGs, unless you're talking about the idiot caster who runs ahead of everyone else and aggros every ****ing mob within radar range and 'tanks' them for about half a second before screaming for res.

You don't need 16 tactics and a full bar of stances to be a tank. Warriors are *natural* tanks, even without bringing any skills designed specifically for tanking. You generally have 80AL base, +20AL vs. physical, and probably a shield (I'm going to exclude hammer warriors for the sake of simplicity). You also tend to have more health, from the +health mods on weapon and shield. There is usually no reason for the warrior to not try and soak damage, regardless of whether you brought any 'tanking' skills.

Trying to not be a tank, just to go against the stereotype, is stupid and irresponsible, and is likely to result in party wipe if the area is sufficiently difficult or your teammates sufficiently inexperienced/incompetent. The warrior should always be the first one in and the last one out. Leave caster ganking to the assassins and rangers. If you're good, you should be able to group enemy aggro around their casters anyway, allowing you to both tank and kill casters at the same time.

If your team doesn't know to let warriors hold aggro, teach them. If they don't listen or talk back, just ragequit, because chances are good that you're not going to get anywhere with them anyway.

Aside from the standard farming build, I've never played a PvE warrior that didn't have 16 in weapon mastery and at least 9~10 in str. I still run ahead of the group to draw aggro, bodyblock, and otherwise keep my backline alive, without a single defensive stance in my bar. I can take Watch Yourself! if I have space, and Dolyak Sig if I don't have confidence in my monk's ability to keep me alive (either because the monk is bad, or because the area has too much damage). Being able to deal damage doesn't stop you from tanking, so please do your job as a warrior.